... Mr. Robert B. Goldmann, renowned journalist and Holocaust survivor.
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Interview with Mr. Robert B. Goldmann.
Question:
Mr. Goldmann, German-Jewish relations have always been close to your heart. Today, you criticize the German Jews because you think they don’t do enough to integrate into German society. Your hometown of Reinheim, where you are an honorary citizen, has since the year 2000 awarded the Robert Goldmann Scholarship to researchers who engage themselves with questions of racism and human dignity in the context of German-Jewish relations. The 2006 scholarship recipient Mrs. Florentine Fritzen deals with this topic in her analysis: “The relationship of Jews in Germany to their non-Jewish environment.”
What do you regard as the reason for that insufficient integration?
Robert Goldmann:
Maybe it is a form of self-protection. It is difficult to break with a certain distrust. But that distrust is completely unwarranted. Quite the contrary, the German Jews miss a unique opportunity to “live” German culture, to become integrated into a liberal and democratic state and to engage in open dialogue. It is almost tragic that they withdraw from their surroundings to this extent, which today are, intellectually and culturally, the most active in Europe.
Q.:
Which steps would the German Jews have to take to better integrate themselves? Are you optimistic that, as before 1933, there might be another success story for Jews in Germany?
A.:
The success story of the years before 1933 cannot be repeated. Too much has happened. But a new relationship can and should develop. Ignatz Bubis, former President of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, set a wonderful example. He was member of the city council of Frankfurt, had a prominent role within his party (the FDP), and always sought dialogue with the German public. This was not sustained after his death.
Q.:
How do you think Germans have come to terms with the National Socialist past? Have they done enough? Do you see any anti-Semitic tendencies in German society today?
A.:
In my encounters and experiences, in the media and on the internet, I do not see any anti-Semitic tendencies in Germany. Often, for obvious reasons, something is considered anti-Semitic that may not be so, but just legitimate criticism. Why shouldn’t one criticize Jews as one criticizes anyone else? Particularly among those who have a strong influence on public opinion, such as intellectuals, journalists and politicians, I sometimes see an excess of leaning over backward.
Q.:
But, particularly in left-leaning circles, isn’t it often the case that Israel is harshly criticized, while Palestinian demands are met with a certain sympathy? Doesn’t that conflict with your theory?
A.:
That is not anti-Semitism. That is political correctness. To be sure, some may feel a bit relieved to be able to criticize Jews again, because it was something one was not supposed to do for a long time. I think this is understandable. What I don’t think is natural, is that Israel is seen as a Western occupier and the Palestinians as victims. That view is too simplistic.
Q.:
Within the next three decades, there won’t be any contemporary witnesses left. How do you think that will influence future German-Jewish relations?
A.:
I think that the awareness of the distinctive quality of German-Jewish relations will live on for some time. The questions of high school graduates today are a good example that the awareness, the remembrance and the resulting responsibility are very deeply felt among the younger generation.
Q.:
Your life has been very similar to that of other intellectual Jewish emigrants to America. I’m thinking of Hannah Arendt, for example. Hannah Arendt was sharply criticized by other Jewish intellectuals, particularly for her theory that the Jews, due to political naiveté, didn’t resist the oppression and persecution by the Nazi regime to a greater extent, but also for her phrase about the “banality of evil” in her reports on the trial of Adolf Eichmann, the chief bureaucrat and organizer of the Jewish genocide. What do you think of Hannah Arendt’s theories?
A.:
The first, I consider unrealistic. The second is very sharply observed and I share her opinion about the “banality of evil.” In my opinion, it doesn’t take a lot to turn humans into perpetrators. Maybe it takes a longing to belong, the identification with some greater cause, whereby one accepts excesses, an uncritical sense of duty, an uncritical loyalty, also a certain momentum, inherent in the system. Certainly many of the perpetrators weren’t even aware of their own wrongdoing. One also has to know that history can be deceptive because one always evaluates developments in hindsight. At the time, the evil evolved very slowly, subtly, and was not as apparent as it may seem looking back. I always have great difficulty explaining that to my fellow Americans without being suspected of exculpating the perpetrators.
By the way, what impressed me most about Hannah Arendt was her book “The Origins of Totalitarianism.” In it, she explains that the roots of totalitarianism are the same regardless of the ideology that guides the perpetrators.
Thank you, Mr. Goldmann
